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Can we turn off the new jump animation?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 13 post(s)
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.06.05 16:21:00 - [1] - Quote I love the idea of the animation. I feel nauseas as a dog after a dozen jumps. Please give us the option to turn the damned thing off. Thank you.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2013.06.05 21:30:00 - [2] - Quote (1) The motion sickness is real. I play on a high-grade workstation so I can assure you that it has nothing to do with cheap hardware. (2) Anyone suggesting that players 'look away' or switch to map view while jumping probably hasn't done much delicate work in nullsec while flying a vulnerable vessel. Those living in low- and null- must stay on the ball before and after each jump. (3) The risk to epileptics and those prone to motion sickness has evidently not been assessed. I really hope the CCP advisory team is looking into the relevant legal precedents in case someone does actually get sick. (4) A helpful soul earlier suggested that those who now find the game partly unplayable move to WH -- and to be fair, that's not a bad idea. The other option is simply to walk away for a few months until the problem is addressed by the programmers. If there is no "old animation" then I suppose CCP will need time to make a brand new one which is easier on the eyes. I'm perfectly willing to spend a few months away from the game as they do this.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2013.06.05 23:14:00 - [3] - Quote Raze Zindonas wrote: Legally they are covered. Fair enough. So that removes legal action as a motivation for CCP to improve this aspect of their product. One might still want to ask whether it's ethical to put out a program with a poorly understood cognitive impact on its users. But nevermind. This leaves the following arguments that have been offered thus far for an on/off toggle for this effect: (a) Good idea, poorly implemented. Not very polished. (Keav) (b) Cool animation but not a fun one. (Hammerstrike). (c) The 'camera whip' is too sharp. It's disorienting. (Fidard) (d) People make movies from this stuff. There's an economic element. This messes that up. (Fidard) (e) If enough people actually really can't take it, they will not be able to help playing a lot less. I've probably missed a few? One other thing I should point out: if they were to put in the toggle, they'd see pretty quickly how many people actually used it. I'd guess over half. But they probably don't want to bother coding that up. Pity.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2013.06.05 23:18:00 - [4] - Quote Tiven loves Tansien wrote: Well, you guys still are paying them... right? Check out (d) and (e) above. This may actually force people who like the game quite a lot to play a lot less. Some for economic reasons. Some for cognitive health reasons.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2013.06.05 23:35:00 - [5] - Quote By the way, in case anyone at CCP actually does read this... what might help you guys is a small cognitive science lab on site or one you can contract out to. When those guys are not assessing your new ideas for cognitive impact, they can help improve the AI of various NPCs, perhaps adding complexity to those interactions. Just an idea. Maybe you already have a cog-sci lab that I know nothing about. Apologies for being redundant twice in one day if that's the case.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2013.06.06 00:10:00 - [6] - Quote Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: Nope. Sub is cancelled until this animation can be turned off. I genuinely hope that doesn't translate into "permenant". I actually think a better option for now would be simply to play a lot less. I will keep training my skills at least for a few months in the hopes that CCP come around. It's summer anyway, so I'm happy to spend the time outside or at work. I don't mind the subscription fees, at least for a bit. I can reassess down the road.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2013.06.06 03:55:00 - [7] - Quote Ris Dnalor wrote: I like the new system. That's cool. You have every right to like it. All that's being asked is that those who either don't like it or cannot easily accommodate it be given the choice to turn it off.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 11	Posted - 2013.06.06 14:57:00 - [8] - Quote Ranger 1 wrote: There are aspects in every game or other piece of software that you have ever used that are hard coded, and these are usually done that way for a reason (often having to do with them being linked to resource allocation during processor or memory intensive tasks). I recognize that there are aspects of any software package that are hard coded, deeply nested, and so difficult to change. And I agree that from a computer scientist's point of view this is often done for very good reasons -- reasons to do with optimizing memory use and algorithm efficiency. That's what comp-sci is good at. Still, problems can arise when a whole other dimension of design is ignored: computer scientists and engineers typically lack the training to assess human usability factors. They are not cognitive psychologists (and they should not be asked to be). Let me give you a concrete example. About 15 years ago, "search and rescue" heads up displays were pretty good from a purely technical point of view. It was therefore hard for the engineers involved to understand why elite pilots who used them kept crashing into very large stationary objects while making seemingly routine landings. The problem was ultimately solved by recognizing that the human brain has certain limitations with regard to attention capture. The modern generation of HUDs is based on integrating an understanding of those human limitations into design from the ground up. My suggestion for CCP is to do what the military did: factor human usability into the equation early on so we don't end up in blind alleys like this. Algorithm efficiency is important. But so are cognitive issues. Pilot nausea is not going away even if you prove to us that the algorithm you have going is mathematically impeccable or chase us from the forums. So we face the problem: what to do? My suggestion is to address the issue.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 11	Posted - 2013.06.06 16:02:00 - [9] - Quote Ranger 1 wrote: Yep, time to just ride it out. The difference, it seems, is that the unpleasant effects on players are more pronounced this time. So you might have to wait a while for discussion to die down. Myself, I don't plan to unsubscribe over this. But I will only log on to update my skill queue until I can gate-jump comfortably again. As you say: time to ride it out.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 12	Posted - 2013.06.06 16:59:00 - [10] - Quote Still, you'd think they'd at least have something to say in response, apart from what we got at the very beginning of the thread.

Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 12	Posted - 2013.06.06 17:23:00 - [11] - Quote Fair enough Ranger. Selective quoting can be a problem. But I've noticed that you have not responded to the idea that algorithm efficiency must be weighed against a concern for human cognitive factors. As someone with experience on the comp-sci side of things, I'd be curious to hear what you think.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 12	Posted - 2013.06.06 17:40:00 - [12] - Quote Ranger 1 wrote: ....despite studies and all other evidence to the contrary there is an actual problem... Could you please provide references to the 'studies' you mention. Also, what is all this evidence to the contrary? Thanks.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 12	Posted - 2013.06.06 17:56:00 - [13] - Quote Ranger 1 wrote: ...do your own research into what causes motion sickness and/or disorientation when viewing movement on a computer screen... although this thread has already voiced the obvious and well know causes many times already. If you did research in cognitive science, you'd know that nothing in the area is as obvious as it seems. Here's a link to a doctoral thesis on the very topic you mention -- motion sickness. By reading it and following up the references you may get some ideas for how to avoid these problems in the future. Tbh, I'll need to spend a bit of time digging up the ideal literature on this since it's never been a precise area of interest of mine. But the above is a start, if you care.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2013.06.06 18:06:00 - [14] - Quote It's interesting to me that we suddenly get a flood of denials regarding motion sickness induced by simulated rapid motion. Does this mean that someone somewhere is getting worried about potential bad publicity? I, for one, really do feel motion sick from the effect. No lie. By the way, this entire problem would make a fascinating case-study for a cross-listed computer science / cognitive psychology class on human factors. I bet only some portion of the class would feel queasy from the effect and so one could debate the economic costs / benefits of various solutions.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 15	Posted - 2013.06.06 18:34:00 - [15] - Quote Ranger 1 wrote: ... Thanks for your thoughtful reply. You are quite right about the thesis: it's not specific to this problem. It's an old piece. I'd need a couple of weeks to dig up the ideal literature on this. I am teaching a class right now but I could be tempted to do the lit-search later on in the summer if I can be confident that something will come of it. I could also point you to some people who have done empirical work with HUDs in the past and who might be able to evaluate future design ideas for cognitive impact (or study this one). Too bad the effect is here to say (if indeed it is). I'll probably hang on and train up skills for a while. I don't mind having an Eve character even if I won't play very much. It's a pretty cool bit of sci-fi. The rest of the expansion is pretty awesome btw. I was looking forward to following up a clue-chase through nullsec up to Jove space quite a lot. Maybe after the next expansion. :)
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 15	Posted - 2013.06.07 02:08:00 - [16] - Quote Huang Mo wrote: Vera Denjuros wrote: Thats why it was tested on SiSi before implementation, almost everything gets tested, so it beats me why there is all this whining now, perhaps if more people would help CCP test stuff on SiSi instead of crying wolf AFTER implementation.... People DID point out the problems: Can we turn this off? "post-jump rotation "around ship" will lead to motion sickness" camera spinning with each jump gets a bit nauseating after a few jumps I can see this getting VERY old very fast please add an option to disable it for people with motion sickness Nice effect - the first 10 jumps. Then, it just gets boring and the camera movement after you jumped really gets annoying it causes motion sickness it feels like getting sick if you have to do more than 2 jumps I have to go along with the "this causes headaches" group This will obviously cause trouble to people who suffer from motion sickness after 10 jumps I felt dizzy and after 17 jumps I got sick This one nails it: please, before rolling this on Tranquility, make team-wide playtest with 30+ systems manual jump route. If anyone will get motion sickness in the middle of the route, then animation clearly not done yet Basically every complaint post-patch was raised pre-patch ! A huge THANK YOU to Huang Mo for digging all of this up.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 21	Posted - 2013.06.07 21:41:00 - [17] - Quote Just got home and was gonna hop onto the server and see what was up. Then I remembered.... new-EVEGäó is now exclusively for the pre-pubescent roller-coaster-loving crowd. Arg. So never mind. I think instead I'll check out one of those sci-fi books that the Mittani's always reviewing on his blog. :) Time to develop some new habits, I suppose. Oh, notice btw that we still have no real response from CCP (no surprise) and no input from CSM (what do they do again?).
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 23	Posted - 2013.06.07 22:10:00 - [18] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: words Again: we are only asking for the option to turn off the damn animation. It's not really much, is it? Brute silence in the face of arguments and evidence is the response of a narrow, dictatorial, tyrannical mind. This is something that every half-witted bully holding a cudgel dimly understands. The fact that you find it normal makes me worry. CCP owes a proper reply. And the CSM seems asleep at the wheel.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 23	Posted - 2013.06.07 22:28:00 - [19] - Quote Anyone joining this thread late should probably go back and read it from the start. Lots has happened. Let me recap a few points that I've found interesting so far. I hope someone else will chime in and recap stuff that I missed. This is only my take. 1. Lots of people have complained that they either don't like or can't really watch the new animation. Null- and low-sec pilots find it especially annoying. Carebears tend to use F10. 2. There was evidence earlier on in the thread that CCP got plenty of negative feedback during the SiSi testing phase and simply ignored it. I think the litany of negative comments about the animation is somewhere around page 16 of the thread. You might want to ask why they bother testing stuff if they ignore the feedback. But anyway... 2. Some preliminary post-graduate work was found suggesting that virtual reality could cause motion sickness. No specific empirical work has been done by CCP or anyone else on this specific effect yet. We've had some entertaining sarcasm about 'sudden epidemics' though. 3. Someone with lots of relevant experience in video game design suggested that the code involved in the animation is deeply nested within the EVE program so it may be non-trivial to fix. That sucks since it means that even if the pro-choice side is right, it might take until the next expansion before we can play the game again. 4. Lots of really cool primate dominance displays were performed. Fun was had by all. Happy reading! :) === Full disclosure: I fk&c#ng love the All Blacks. :) heh.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 25	Posted - 2013.06.07 22:45:00 - [20] - Quote Maybelater Headache wrote: 3. still lacks any proof I know. I'm trying to be charitable here mate. To he honest, I suspect what's actually deeply embedded is not so much the code as the influence of the arts design team on where EVE is supposed to go in the future.

Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 25	Posted - 2013.06.07 22:58:00 - [21] - Quote Kewso wrote: the jump animation only lasts about 2 seconds anyhow with a good pc there's no problem with it. Dude, I play on a workstation with a professional graphics card. So no. As for Dr. Who: I've loved it since Tom Baker (the best doctor ever). Don't try to teach an old dog old tricks.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 30	Posted - 2013.06.08 12:28:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Sisyphus wrote: We ARE looking at this and considering what we can do. Thanks so much CCP Sisyphus. That's really great news. Much love. === Only a couple of things to add to what's already been said about camera pan, repetitiveness, loss of player control, jarring starts and stops, etc. 1. Please keep in mind that gate jumps in null- and low-sec can often be moments of high tension, particularly when flying fragile ships. Sometimes we are going to be intensely focused on our tactics before the jump and then on nearby hostiles, local composition, d-scan, and the layout of warp bubbles afterward. I'd ask please that the jump sequence not make things even more difficult for scouts. They already have a hard job. 2. It might be a good idea to test the sequence both on high-end and low-end machines. It's pretty unfair that someone should worry about losing a cloaky hauler or BR to nullsec rats because their hard drive takes a bit longer to load the sequence. As well, a large difference also probably means that gate-camp interceptors played on fast hard drives will have a substantial unfair advantage. In any case, thanks again. It's awesome to have some dialogue on this. I'm sure it will take time to really iron out. But it's very cool that you're trying.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 30	Posted - 2013.06.08 20:22:00 - [23] - Quote Maybelater Headache wrote: I guess it is meant ccp is not willing to put the effort in. So it might, again, be a matter of pressure aka unsubscribing in relevant numbers. You know? I respect your take on this. But I'm not so sure. Just about any place I've worked has various factions that don't really see eye to eye about the future of the enterprise. I bet CCP is the same. I agree that the subscriber base needs to help make the point that the "flashy arts effects come first" faction has things ass backwards. All we need to do in order to do this is just not to log in much for a week or two. Looking at that stupid animation is so unpleasant that this is not exactly a sacrifice. If the numbers go down a bit, the faction that wants to put content before flash will be able to make their point (I hope). I think threatening to unsubscribe is the wrong approach. I really like this game and all the work they've put in. It's original, complex, difficult and unlike anything else I've seen. I don't actually intend to unsubscribe as long as they make a good faith effort to put out a quality product. I want to see them improve it, not walk away. Here's one other thing: if the online numbers go down, they will be getting fewer new subscriptions. That's plenty bad enough.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 31	Posted - 2013.06.09 13:27:00 - [24] - Quote Bimbi Norris wrote: If your experiencing lag due to the latest graphic enhancements when jumping thru gates, stop being a cheap bastard and go buy a better computer. Or better yet...GO PLAY WOW Suggestion: the next time you decide to post an insult on a thread that's 24 pages long, please go back and read some of it first. Maybe just half.... you know.... so you can make a convincing show of speaking on topic. Those with fast machines are having a harder time of it. The effects seem to run faster on their machines. This is one reason we are asking for the option to turn them off.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 35	Posted - 2013.06.11 19:08:00 - [25] - Quote Jint Hikaru wrote: ...it also feels like the game itself is 'grabbing' control of my ship and then dumping it back to me. Kind of immersion breaking really. Which is kind of ironic, I suppose.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 35	Posted - 2013.06.13 16:54:00 - [26] - Quote Here we still are. Not much has changed. And the same players who found the effects annoying last week still find them annoying today. I'd say the camera swing does a good enough job of imposing itself on people that there's no need for demagoguery or 'inflaming the masses'. In much better news: I'd forgotten how good some of William Gibson's stuff is. I recommend it. Lem has his moments too. I wonder when we'll get an update from the developers.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 35	Posted - 2013.06.15 20:58:00 - [27] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: The animation was released at fanfest to thunderous applause. Below is a summary of the pre-release criticisms posted on SiSi. The list was compiled by Huang Mo (big thanks!) in response to a similar point about the pre-launch popularity of the animation. Huang Mo wrote: Can we turn this off? "post-jump rotation "around ship" will lead to motion sickness" camera spinning with each jump gets a bit nauseating after a few jumps I can see this getting VERY old very fast please add an option to disable it for people with motion sickness Nice effect - the first 10 jumps. Then, it just gets boring and the camera movement after you jumped really gets annoying it causes motion sickness it feels like getting sick if you have to do more than 2 jumps I have to go along with the "this causes headaches" group This will obviously cause trouble to people who suffer from motion sickness after 10 jumps I felt dizzy and after 17 jumps I got sick This one nails it: please, before rolling this on Tranquility, make team-wide playtest with 30+ systems manual jump route. If anyone will get motion sickness in the middle of the route, then animation clearly not done yet Basically every complaint post-patch was raised pre-patch ! It's hard to maintain that CCP listened to pre-launch player feedback.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2013.06.16 21:24:00 - [28] - Quote Still not going to unsub over this (so you can't have my stuff ). But I'm also not going to play much until I can really enjoy a nice stalk and hunt in lowsec again. Anyway, I'm pretty sure CCP mean it when they say that they are working on the problem. I'm looking forward to hearing about how that's going. No pressure. Just curious to hear the news.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2013.06.16 23:47:00 - [29] - Quote CCP BunnyVirus wrote: there is no old system anymore Krazynikomo wrote: getting bridged by a titan is the old stupid "bloop, you just appeared out of nothing" effect.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2013.06.17 00:14:00 - [30] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Ain't no load screen there, either. Cool. Thanks for setting that straight. I was wondering what the hell was going on. Looking at that vid makes it seem like there's no rapid camera swing at the start of the bridge effect. Is that right? There's still that terrible abrupt stop at the end. But if there's no camera swing then settling this may just be a matter of using the bridge animation (minus sudden stop) in the place of the gate animation. Relatively few people have complained about the black tunnel itself as far as I can tell. Of course, we'd still have the various cpu / heat / loading speed issues left to deal with. But it would be a pretty good start. Or is this wrong? Dunno.

Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2013.06.17 01:55:00 - [31] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: How is this a factor in PVP at all? You appear in the same damn place. Fair question. So suppose for a sec that you find the animation disorienting. Suppose you deal with the swing/stop sequence by looking away from the jump, or at your instruments, using F10, or whatever. Suppose also that you are flying a stabber in lowsec and jump into a gang of 20 hostiles on a gate. You decide to jump through and pray that none of their tacklers are on the other side..... .... and whoosh.... The camera swings. You close your eyes. You open your eyes. The sudden stop. You try to reorient. .... And damn... they have some small fast ships here already (still?). You power back to the gate as they begin to aggress. The shields start to drop. You look intently at your screen to assess the tactical situation.... .... and whoosh.... The camera swings. You close your eyes. You open your eyes. The sudden stop. You readjust your focus. Has all their small stuff jumped through? By now you're a bit disoriented and you're not quite sure what's on the field.... You try to warp to a safe and hope that you make it.... Now, isn't all this fancy footwork a lot easier without the part where you need to shut your eyes or puke in a bucket? And, of course, if you add having to look at the configuration of warp bubbles to the scenario it gets worse still.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2013.06.17 02:04:00 - [32] - Quote What I wrote is the honest reason I've not been to lowsec since the patch came out. And since my main is not welcome in highsec, I'm kind of stuck for now.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2013.06.17 02:24:00 - [33] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Do you think any of the graphical changes I suggested would be of use in this situation? Ya, for sure. I think if they just took out the camera swing and the sudden invisible brick-wall stop, I'd be good to go. The tunnel is not much of an issue for me. The main thing they need to factor in is that people look at various stuff on the screen really really intensely when they are fighting for their lives on a gate. So the start of the jump and the end are kind of a big deal. (Well, that's what it is for me anyway. I can't speak for everyone.) Oh, and lowsec douchebaggery is best douchebaggery.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2013.06.18 02:01:00 - [34] - Quote Confirming that I'm doing laundry now.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2013.06.18 02:24:00 - [35] - Quote Mallak Azaria wrote: Some people will complain about anything. Yep. And some people will let anyone shovel any sort of **** down their throat and say "thank you." The latter sort make pretty good serfs.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 40	Posted - 2013.06.18 17:26:00 - [36] - Quote Alorae Cloudwalker wrote: Still hoping for a fix! "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they troll you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi (mostly)
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 41	Posted - 2013.06.20 16:55:00 - [37] - Quote Teron Radec wrote: I'm coming (with proof) to say this is hogwash, can you please explain how I've missed the point of the thread? It is not CCP's fault that you're still playing on a Commodore 64. Fair question. And I don't really blame you for not wanting to read the thread from the beginning. It's a bit long. Before answering your question, let me note that I play on a workstation-grade computer with a professional graphics card. I don't multi-box either. So none of the complaints that you allude to apply to me. So your question, as I understand it, boils down to: what is the problem? Mata Hotaki summarized much of what has been said in his post (#587). Here's a quote: Mata Hotaki wrote: 1. Camera control is taken over by the client. 2. The camera view executes a nausea-inducing arc-and-abrupt-stop movement (main culprit in motion sickness feeling) 3. The "tunnel" animation and the abrupt stop afterwards add to the nauseous feeling 4. These awful effects make both the CPU and GPU run measurably hotter (4-5 degrees, compared to similar activity in Retribution). 5. ...EVE was one of the games that did not give me motion sickness until this last patch. 6. If you like the new animation, good for you. Nobody's trying to take it away from you. Just try to convince me how can choice in this matter be a bad thing. So again, the problems are not hardware-based. They have to do withe the cognitive effects of the swing/jump/halt animation on some users. Incidentally, there was ample evidence that this would happen based on SiSi feedback. This was however apparently ignored in the design process. Here's that quote once again: Huang Mo wrote: Can we turn this off? "post-jump rotation "around ship" will lead to motion sickness" camera spinning with each jump gets a bit nauseating after a few jumps I can see this getting VERY old very fast please add an option to disable it for people with motion sickness Nice effect - the first 10 jumps. Then, it just gets boring and the camera movement after you jumped really gets annoying it causes motion sickness it feels like getting sick if you have to do more than 2 jumps I have to go along with the "this causes headaches" group This will obviously cause trouble to people who suffer from motion sickness after 10 jumps I felt dizzy and after 17 jumps I got sick This one nails it: please, before rolling this on Tranquility, make team-wide playtest with 30+ systems manual jump route. If anyone will get motion sickness in the middle of the route, then animation clearly not done yet Basically every complaint post-patch was raised pre-patch ! I hope this helps make sense of the thread.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 41	Posted - 2013.06.20 18:22:00 - [38] - Quote Guttripper wrote: Watching this thread, and my previous version, with CCP making a token appearance before fading away, I have a feeling CCP will react to this issue similar to how they "reacted" to other past complaints and issues - silence before springing the next shiny! I bet you're right. That's cool though. Patience, I'm told, is a virtue. My suggestion: if you +1'ed for an option to turn off the animation earlier, please come back here every other day and +1 again. Myself, for some reason, I don't get bored. Like ever. In some ways it's a blessing. Helps with writing code, studying, and such. So I can keep coming back here for the next decade if need be. So long, of course, as there are really others who feel the same way.... Otherwise it's kind of silly and selfish. And that's not the intention at all. From what I've read, most of us are honestly trying to improve our favourite game, not annoy its makers. Over to you CCP. Please feel free to respond. We'll be here waiting. Peace.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 44	Posted - 2013.06.21 17:17:00 - [39] - Quote Alorae Cloudwalker wrote: I've still got some time left on my subs, so I'll be patient and train. Not sure what I'll do beyond that. Can I encourage you to keep one account? And to check in once in a while? If, say, <10% of the player base quit over this, it won't matter much to the company. They will just replace us with noobs who will happily spend a few years mining in high sec or whatever. And the camera swing + halt will be here to stay. On the other hand, if we stay at the top fo the forums until the next expansion, I'm betting that it will eventually get annoying enough to warrant a dialogue. The more people quit, the weaker our case becomes. The absent are always wrong, as they say.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 47	Posted - 2013.06.23 19:53:00 - [40] - Quote Val'Dore wrote: Dual/Multi Boxing should never be a reason to nerf the game for legit gameplay. I like the pseudo seemless jumping we have now. I don't really blame you for not wanting to read the thread from the beginning. It's a bit long. Then again, it may have been useful at least to skim it before posting. Myself, I play on a workstation-grade computer with a professional graphics card. I don't multi-box either. So what you say does not apply to me. So your point, as I understand it, boils down to: what is the problem? Don't nerf my play. Nobody wants to nerf anything. Mata Hotaki summarized much of what has been said in his post (#587). Here's a quote: Mata Hotaki wrote: 1. Camera control is taken over by the client. 2. The camera view executes a nausea-inducing arc-and-abrupt-stop movement (main culprit in motion sickness feeling) 3. The "tunnel" animation and the abrupt stop afterwards add to the nauseous feeling 4. These awful effects make both the CPU and GPU run measurably hotter (4-5 degrees, compared to similar activity in Retribution). 5. ...EVE was one of the games that did not give me motion sickness until this last patch. 6. If you like the new animation, good for you. Nobody's trying to take it away from you. Just try to convince me how can choice in this matter be a bad thing. To this I can add that I just played again for the first time since the patch and I just logged off with a bad headache. This never used to happen. I used to play for hours with no problem. The problems are not hardware-based. They have nothing to do with dual-boxing. They have to do withe the cognitive effects of the swing/jump/halt animation on my poor eyes. And I know I'm not the only one. Incidentally, there was ample evidence that this would happen based on SiSi feedback. This was however apparently ignored in the design process. Here's that quote once again: Huang Mo wrote: Can we turn this off? "post-jump rotation "around ship" will lead to motion sickness" camera spinning with each jump gets a bit nauseating after a few jumps I can see this getting VERY old very fast please add an option to disable it for people with motion sickness Nice effect - the first 10 jumps. Then, it just gets boring and the camera movement after you jumped really gets annoying it causes motion sickness it feels like getting sick if you have to do more than 2 jumps I have to go along with the "this causes headaches" group This will obviously cause trouble to people who suffer from motion sickness after 10 jumps I felt dizzy and after 17 jumps I got sick This one nails it: please, before rolling this on Tranquility, make team-wide playtest with 30+ systems manual jump route. If anyone will get motion sickness in the middle of the route, then animation clearly not done yet Basically every complaint post-patch was raised pre-patch ! I hope this helps make sense of the thread (once again).

Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 49	Posted - 2013.06.24 12:57:00 - [41] - Quote SKINE DMZ wrote: running a laptop with integrated graphics card.. no problems at all well... there's your difference. I'm looking at a 23" widescreen monitor. I sit nearly a meter away from it but it still feels as though completely fills my field of vision. With headphones on, my EVE imersion experience couldn't be better, with or without the animation. This never used to be a problem at all. In fact, it used to be awesome: I used to feel like EVE was a movie. Absolutely brilliant. Omo Hubble wrote: I understand why the devs don't want people having the option to turn this off..... I bet half the players would turn it off if they had the option. This was roughly my mom's policy regarding her microwaved fish: you'll eat it and you'll like it too!
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 52	Posted - 2013.06.24 19:26:00 - [42] - Quote Sal Landry wrote: Your weak stomach is holding back technological progress. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. Right. Looks like the gloves are off, eh? Let's be clear: this animation has zero to do with technological progress. It was the brainchild of some overly enthusiastic 'artist' wonk who has evidently never heard of 'usability studies' and can't distinguish kitsch from content. Likely, his job is now riding on not giving up on this bit of graphic wizardry. So players are stuck without options. Real progress in this case would ammount to (1) listening to pre-release player feedback when it's given; (2) carrying out usability research on major new components rather than leaving them up to 'artsy' types; (3) engaging in dialogue with the player base. Sorry to see you guys go.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 58	Posted - 2013.06.26 02:39:00 - [43] - Quote Disastro wrote: Can you imagine what its like going thru gates right now with large fleets? Speaking of large fleets.... honestly, we could use a hand in this thread precisely from you guys. There are lots of you. If you'd just drop by here once in a while and +1 on the days you find the animation particularly painful, we might eventually see some action. Too few active voices (like mine!) weaken the impact. Which is why I'm gona shut up for a bit. Thanks. P.S. I've noticed that the Tranquility numbers since the expansion support the view that people are playing slightly less. See esp. the 'past month' graph. Of course, the causes are anybody's guess. And correlation does not imply causation. Still, you get zero points for guessing what I think one of the major factors might be.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 60	Posted - 2013.06.26 16:58:00 - [44] - Quote CCP Sisyphus wrote: we hear your concerns and we're in the process of exploring various avenues for resolving them that include work on the camera and work on the animation itself to smooth it out and alter how it flashes and scrolls, however this is something that will take time and won't happen overnight. You guys are awesome. For my part, I really appreciate your detailed reply CCP Sisyphus. I'm also grateful for all the work that I'm sure will go into ironing out all of the jump details. I hope I speak for at least a few others when I say that the reason we kept posting is that we love this amazing game/simulation that you have created. No game as complex or harsh as EVE and you deserve a lot of gratitude for that. Many thanks. Looking forward to spending many hours lost in your world once again.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 60	Posted - 2013.06.26 19:50:00 - [45] - Quote CCP Sisyphus wrote: Just a thought - why am I not getting requests to turn off the warp tunnel? It has EXACTLY the same reasoning behind it, and should we ever achieve our dream of multi node handling for a single system, it would probably serve the exact same purpose. Good question. I think the first-pass easy answer is that the jump tunnel effect starts by taking control of the camera and swinging it violently in an unexpected direction. It seems to me that that's the aspect of the whole thing that has drawn the most criticism. Secondly, the effect ends with a rather violent stop. Again, not very fun to watch. The actual tardis tunel in both cases is pretty much fine (or so i think. maybe others disagree). In fact, the warp tunnel is quite nice since it's easy on the eyes and gives one a chance to check that one has overheated one's mods (or whatever) before hopping on top of one's target. It's like that last bit of calm before the storm. (Can't call the gate jump a moment of calm, can we?) that's my take anyway.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 61	Posted - 2013.06.28 17:33:00 - [46] - Quote Malcanis wrote: words Can we keep it constructive and civil? I mean I know you have a fancy white tag and all. But still... humour us by at least pretending to be offering useful input. Thanks. CCP Sysiphys has already said that CCP will be looking at the issue. Very likely the new animation will be less jarring and a lot more gentle on the eyes/brain. I don't see what there's still to argue about until we see it. For my part, I'm just going to stay away from the game, chill and wait for the new version. I hope the devs take into account all the helpful stuff that's been said here.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 62	Posted - 2013.06.29 16:08:00 - [47] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: We advise, we represent . . . Thanks dude. I know some of you guys try and can't always get stuff to happen. That's cool. I can't find it right now, but that other post you made where you mentioned that even some CCP employees gave some critical feedback regarding the animation -- that post was really helpful and encouraging to read. Thanks. You get my vote the next time just for that. (Malcanis on the other hand ... not so much.) ... Yawn. Looking forward to getting a few more skills up to level 5 as this drama plays out.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 63	Posted - 2013.06.30 15:58:00 - [48] - Quote CCP Sisyphus wrote: We are in the process of tweaking camera and FOV changes occurring in jump tunnel, the pre and post tunnel camera work as well. There's no problem guys. Let's not lose perspective. The devs are working on improving the animation. It's summer. Life is beautiful and I'm going to spend the day outside on my balcony reading a book with a beer in my hand. Maybe I'll go check out the local park while I'm at it. Nothing to stress about. EVE will be fixed shortly. Also, if we're dicks about this, I'm guessing it will take twice as long to fix and the result won't be half as good. The best thing we can do is to say 'thanks for recognizing the problem' and chill. Peace.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 64	Posted - 2013.07.01 14:36:00 - [49] - Quote Nick Rayner wrote: I think that I've just found the image that perfectly describes the situation right now: http://i.imgur.com/c98U0RZ.jpg awesome
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 65	Posted - 2013.07.05 00:11:00 - [50] - Quote So, to be completely honest about this, either I'm getting used to the jumps or something's been tweaked. It's not nearly as freaky as it was when the effect first came out. Or, so it seems to me anyway. Is the jump swing sequence slower? Are there fewer flashes? Is the ending less abrupt? Not really sure. Either way, I'm either slowly getting better at handling it or they've been kind enough to lighten it up a bit. Either one is good news for me. (And I hope they continue in that direction a bit to make it even easier on the people who are still unhappy.)

Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 65	Posted - 2013.07.06 13:36:00 - [51] - Quote Rekon X wrote: They just said F off, deal with it. You haven't seen them comment to this thread. That's not quite right. They did comment on the thread here and here. So, there's no problem guys. They are looking into this. And I take CCP Sisyphus at his word when he says this: CCP Sisyphus wrote: The jump transition, much like the warp tunnel, is here to stay as a replacement for loading bars, and therefore it has to be good for everyone, and has to function as intended. .... We will stress though, that we hear your concerns and we're in the process of exploring various avenues for resolving them that include work on the camera and work on the animation itself to smooth it out and alter how it flashes and scrolls, however this is something that will take time and won't happen overnight. For now, I'm just playing for like an hour at a time before I get fed up with it. Today I'm mostly gona be off on the balcony with a cold beer and a decent book. No worries though. It's all getting sorted. It will just take time. Enjoy the warm weather!
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 66	Posted - 2013.07.07 01:54:00 - [52] - Quote So at first I thought it was just wishful thinking. But I really don't think it is now. The animation seems better than it was a week or two ago. The tunel is not as freaky. But most importantly, the ship itself no longer swings around in that crazy way. Now it's just the viewpoint that pivots. Somehow that's not as bad. (I'd still maybe make the swing less violent. But still...) Definitely a step in the right direction? Or am I seeing things?
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 66	Posted - 2013.07.09 22:53:00 - [53] - Quote Ranger 1 wrote: Far from being upset, I encourage you to detail what you ascertain to be the exact causes of your discomfort so that they can be more easily identified and corrected. At the same time I recognize that the effect is not likely to be completely removed or be given a toggle, as that is simply the reality of the situation. Hey Ranger. I think you're right about this. And, honestly, if CCP can just make the whole thing gentle on the eyes/ears I personally will be pretty cool with it all. I'm actually enjoying the end part of the tunnel where we come out. It's kinda' neat. Also, the fact that the camera now swings toward the gate before going to the side is helpful. I can at least keep oriented. The old version (if I remember right) just went sideways and was disorienting. Oh and I want to say that the space-distortion effect on the gates is very cool. So here are a few things I'd personally still like to see polished or have heard mentioned by others: the audio effects are too loud and drown out battlecoms; people who use tactical overview on gates do not like the camera zooming in at every gate. If they are focused on pvp i can understand why; some of the Minmatar gates involve a long swing of about 270'. This is to orient in the 'correct' direction. But actually a short swing of 60' (or whatever) would be much better and easier to stomach. Realism be damned; many of the Gallente gates have us jumping through a solid wall the tunnel effect is still a bit too flashy. Keep in mind we often see it ten times in short succession; the end of the tunnel is a touch too abrupt. That's my laundry list so far. I hope those who are pushing for an off button won't come to my house with pitchforks and torches. I just hope it all works out in the end.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 68	Posted - 2013.07.13 18:09:00 - [54] - Quote Ace Uoweme wrote: Having to fly in a game that drew me to it because it's space with plenty of beautiful Hubble like images, but now it has to be covered with anything else...yeah, it's t-h-a-t bad. +1 that Just confirming that I actually do get headaches now from an our or two of roaming. Never used to happen. I too used to enjoy my wonderful trips through the Hubble-like star-scapes. "To gild refined gold, to paint the lily, to throw perfume on the violet, is just fckn silly"
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 71	Posted - 2013.07.17 14:16:00 - [55] - Quote Fodiam wrote: Yep, you not alone ... Here's a link to the Tranquility Server population statistics. Since the Oddessy update, there has been a noticable downward trend in the weekly spikes that represent the maximum number of players logged on simultaneously. This is best visible on the 'Past Year' graph. Our forum discussion offers anecdotal evidence of a problem and relies on a skewed sample set. I think the statistical evidence is pretty clear though. Anyway, peace. I'm off ot the park with a beer and a book.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 71	Posted - 2013.07.17 15:02:00 - [56] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: We advise, we represent . . . I'm glad to read that you will be going to CSM8 Summer Summit Mike. Thanks again for your helpful and open-minded input on this thread. I hope you will get a chance to review what has been said from the start and raise some of the points with CCP -- esp. the stuff about taking sisi feedback seriously, etc. Good luck. (I'm not particularly sad that Malcanis won't be attending.)
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 71	Posted - 2013.07.26 03:45:00 - [57] - Quote Plastic Psycho wrote: I know how to turn off the jump animation. It was there all along. Load star map before jumping. Problem solved. Yep. I especially recommend this clever tactic to all the hauler pilots flying in lowsec regions near my home.
Sister Sophia Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 72	Posted - 2013.08.06 22:00:00 - [58] - Quote Actually, something has been done. I'm not sure if you've noticed but the animation now is way less annoying than it was at the beginning. For a start, the camera no longer swings around wildly. It zooms to the gate instead. Also, the flashy tunnel effects are not as gaudy as they were before. And lastly, the animation ends by zooming you onto a cloaked image of your ship -- this helps me (for one) orient. So all in all things are much better than they were a few weeks ago. I appreciate the fact that some players may not be able to live with this new effect. But I started posting on this thread out of an honest incapacity to deal with the most extreme aspect of the effects. That has now been removed. So I'm happy to return to the game. That said, I hope that everyone's concerns get addressed in due course. I know how much it sucks not to be able to jump between systems comfortably. Peace.

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